General Odom Misses The Mark
Retired General William Odom has an opinion piece out today stating the need to redefine what supporting the troops means. According to him it means pulling them out of Iraq in a secure manner. As much as I admire the general, this is just more of the same. Here is the last paragraph
It is obvious to everyone that the troops need to be withdrawn from this quagmire, but the media continues to give both sides equal time instead of just reporting what is actually going on in Iraq. The media is bogged down in it's own quagmire of reporting opinions instead of news. What happened to challenging obvious lies put out by the spin doctors of both sides.
Instead of that, they would rather roll over and accept the lies of talk radio and republican funded spin doctors such as the Heritage Foundation, Bill Kristol and the rest of that crew at the Weekly Standard and all of the grand old men of Washington politics and journalism.
If the democrats want to accept leadership of this nation then they will have to put it on the line and force the media to report the truth.
It take guts and leadership to step up and fight the president and the democrats have not shown either in such a long time that I just don't think this group has what it takes.
On another issue here, I wish Bill Clinton would shut the hell up about pardons and all that other stuff that goes with executive powers. His actions in January of 2001 were at best disgraceful and as much as I hate to agree with Tony Snow about anything, the Arkansan word for chutzpah is balls and yes Clinton has a large set if he actually criticized Bush on this particular issue.
The media and the democrats need to grow some balls themselves and I just don't think that once you lose them that you can grow them back.
Jim Martin
Thanks to The Moderate Voice for the link.
The final step should be to put that president on notice that if ignores this legislative action and tries to extort Congress into providing funds by keeping U.S. forces in peril, impeachment proceeding will proceed in the House of Representatives. Such presidential behavior surely would constitute the "high crime" of squandering the lives of soldiers and Marines for his own personal interest.I hate to say it, but this is not grounds for impeachment. The president was authorized to invade Iraq and given more and more power to wage war. The only way to stop this war is to stop funding it. Let's back up to an earlier paragraph.
Congress clearly and indisputably has two powers over the executive: the power of the purse and the power to impeach. Instead of using either, members of congress are wasting their time discussing feckless measures like a bill that "de-authorizes the war in Iraq." That is toothless unless it is matched by a cut-off of funds.The American people are already convinced of the need to withdraw from Iraq, so the only people that need to be convinced are the mainstream media.
It is obvious to everyone that the troops need to be withdrawn from this quagmire, but the media continues to give both sides equal time instead of just reporting what is actually going on in Iraq. The media is bogged down in it's own quagmire of reporting opinions instead of news. What happened to challenging obvious lies put out by the spin doctors of both sides.
Instead of that, they would rather roll over and accept the lies of talk radio and republican funded spin doctors such as the Heritage Foundation, Bill Kristol and the rest of that crew at the Weekly Standard and all of the grand old men of Washington politics and journalism.
If the democrats want to accept leadership of this nation then they will have to put it on the line and force the media to report the truth.
It take guts and leadership to step up and fight the president and the democrats have not shown either in such a long time that I just don't think this group has what it takes.
On another issue here, I wish Bill Clinton would shut the hell up about pardons and all that other stuff that goes with executive powers. His actions in January of 2001 were at best disgraceful and as much as I hate to agree with Tony Snow about anything, the Arkansan word for chutzpah is balls and yes Clinton has a large set if he actually criticized Bush on this particular issue.
The media and the democrats need to grow some balls themselves and I just don't think that once you lose them that you can grow them back.
Jim Martin
Thanks to The Moderate Voice for the link.
posted by Libby Spencer at 8:29 AM
10 Comments:
I don't see how the media figues in to this?
whether it was authorized or not, the president still can be impeached for this war. the authorization was for removing saddam and securing any weaopns of mass destruction, this was accomplished in the first month of the war.
also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHySRnvhxoM&mode=related&search=
I don't see that being a high crime or misdemeanor. If the congress wants him to stop, then have the guts to cut off the money.
The media drives public perception and then down the line the congress.
Remember when Imus shot himself in the ass? The media drove that big circus and all the outrage was theirs and a few spokespersons for activist groups. Walter Cronkite personally ended the support for Vietnam. It has everything to do with the media.
I disagree. the media is a non entity. people are the reason imus us off the air, not the media. the problem is people. democracy is stupid and unamerican
It is extremely non-obvious that troops need to be withdrawn. Actually, to me, it is clearly obvious that troops must not be withdrawn from Iraq. A retreat now would be throwing away all the lives that have already been lost to no gain. It would also be unbelievably dangerous to US interests and security. We cannot afford to let the world think we can be beaten, in any way, shape, or form.
Also, you have no understanding whatsoever of what a military "quagmire" is, what happened in Vietnam, or why none of that is true about Iraq. There is no Soviet Union backing the Iraqi insurgents. The Iraqi insurgents are not freedom fighters, and in most cases are not even Iraqi. I would compare the difficulties we're having in Iraq to the American Reconstruction after the Civil War, rather than to Vietnam. It takes more than four years to make a lasting change in a culture of oppression.
Of course, this happened back then, too. After five years, the Northern people grew tired of the deaths and economic woes of the South, and ended Reconstruction. The result? All of the advances blacks had made in civil rights and freedom were rolled back for another 60 years. That's what happens if we leave Iraq now... most likely a new dictator will arise who will oppress the people worse than Hussein had. And don't you dare bring up "well, we shouldn't have gone in the first place." I disagree with that, but it's utterly irrelevant. We can't change the past. We have to deal with the situation as it exists now.
So the reason we stay is out of respect to the ones who have died for no reason.
Sorry, but that is absolute horseshit.
The situation now is one that cannot be won militarily and don't dare to presume what I dare, pal.
It's absolute baloney to assert that the war can't be won. We're winning now under the surge strategy. It's no baloney, though, to say that American public support has about run its course. If four years is too long to fight the war, fine. Bring the troops home. But don't blame the problem on the lack of information and biased reporting, man! All we see on the mainstream networks and newspapers is the bloody carnage. We have to read blogger-journalists like Michael Yon, or non-biased military experts, to get the real inside scoop on U.S. progress in Iraq. I think Liberal Imperialist makes a good argument (he argues much more than respecting the fallen), but your response is to spew and get disgusting. Great powers of reason there, Jim.
This argument has nothing to do with reporting but the framing of the argument.
If there is real progress in Iraq, it is hiding itself very well. It just seems to be a whack-a-mole situation and every time someone gets called on it then it gets to be "spew and disgusting".
It would be good to get some reporting that isn't about the carnage but when reporters have to go out protected by the U.S. military or be killed, then what kind of situation is going on.
The proof of whether the surge is working will take months if not years to determine and any statement that it is working is pure horseshit.
Jim: Who does the framing? You seem to be moving away from your own case. Define success or progress. There's nothing wrong with city by city advances. Indeed, few campaigns in war's history would deviate for the principle of establishing control of the high ground, a beachhead, a strategic redoubt. So it goes in Iraq. Secure the big urban danger zones, clear and hold them, then move on to other hot spots. Nothing wrong with it, and progress depends on who you read. There is progress in tamping down violence and routing terror strongholds. Journalists and civilians are dying because our enemy is indiscriminate. Denounce the war all you want, but spewing is disgusting -- it's vile language as the opposite if finer thought and engagement. I've seen worse, of course, but even a little seems like more frustration than erudition.
I'm sorry, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's too early to determine success or failure of the "surge". It will take months if not years.
My position is the U.S. lacks the leadership politically to get this job done. Mr. Bush has had years and has failed on all levels.
I am from the "you broke it, you bought it" school. We just had a good plan for breaking it, but not a clue about how to fix it.
Now it's good money after bad and it's over politically. Get out.
"It's absolute baloney to assert that the war can't be won. We're winning now under the surge strategy."
dude, the guy isn't coming back with your money. It's a scam. don't make it anymore embarassing for yourself.
" It's no baloney, though, to say that American public support has about run its course. If four years is too long to fight the war, fine. Bring the troops home. But don't blame the problem on the lack of information and biased reporting, man! "
ther are hundreds of right wing blogs, dozens of right wing think tanks, scores of right wing talk shows and up until last november a right wing house and senate. there is plenty iof right wing energy. we ar losing beacuse of a millenia long sunni shia rivalry. how come the liberal media hasnt undermined the succeses in kurdistan?
"All we see on the mainstream networks and newspapers is the bloody carnage."
if ther was no carnage they wouldn't be able to show it would they? there were thousands of protesters in washington for gulf war one and we won that.
"We have to read blogger-journalists like Michael Yon, or non-biased military experts, to get the real inside scoop on U.S. progress in Iraq."
dude, neo con is over. what part of "government isn't the solution, the government is the problem" don't you understand? the rabs don't want us in the middle east and we don't want to be there
"I think Liberal Imperialist makes a good argument (he argues much more than respecting the fallen), but your response is to spew and get disgusting. Great powers of reason there, Jim. "
2003 called, they want their rhetoric back
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